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Tony65x55 · June 2nd, 2012, 02:41 PM

Ever had a piece of gear you really wanted but when you got it, you were disappointed. I think it may have just happened to me.

I have been jonesing for a Fender Deluxe Reverb Reissue for a while. I have a Peavey Classic 30 (doesn't do it for me), a Super Champ XD (very good little amp) and a Super Champ X2. The X2 sounds simply awesome. I did a gig with the little X2 and while the sound was sweet, I needed a little more power. 15 watts was almost enough, but not quite. Nonetheless, I got through the night just fine with many kind remarks about my guitar sound.

Deciding I needed a little more juice led me on a journey to get that amazing SCX2 sound with a little more horsepower. I got a good deal on a Peavey Classic 30 but the sound was simply not as good as the SCX2 playing through the Eminence Red Coat 12" speaker. I was disappointed but soon loomed a decent deal on a Fender Deluxe Reverb RI. Still looking for more juice with the great sound of the SCX2, I bought the DRRI and brought it home.

I know the DRRI is considered like the Holy Grail of combo amps so I was breathless with anticipation about firing it up. That's where the lunch bag let down kicked in. It sounded good... very good...

But not as good as the little SCX2... Worse, it was only the tiniest of bits louder.

Now what? I have a Peavey Classic 30 and a DRRI I need to sell but I still have the same problem. An incredible sounding amp that needs more power.

I tried running it out to a second cabinet and it helped a bit. As well, I tried running the line out to a 100 watt power amp powering the auxiliary speaker and I could get the power no sweat, but it lost a bit it's tubeiness. Nonetheless, that has been the best alternative so far.

Would a Tech 21 Power Engine be the solution. I need your sage wisdom my fellow Gretschies.

calvin lee · June 2nd, 2012, 02:46 PM

sometimes the tiniest, cheapest amps have the most amazing tones you can find, but you cant gig with em.

beatnik · June 2nd, 2012, 03:02 PM

u could get a PA and mic the little fella up same sound louder

Tony65x55 · June 2nd, 2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatnik

u could get a PA and mic the little fella up same sound louder

I thought about that but it doesn't much help the ease of gigging it. Still it is a potential solution.

polishbroadcast · June 2nd, 2012, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony65x55

Ever had a piece of gear you really wanted but when you got it, you were disappointed.

All the time. Sometimes it happens in the first 5 minutes, sometimes it is after a year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tony65x55

I know the DRRI is considered like the Holy Grail of combo amps so I was breathless with anticipation about firing it up. That's where the lunch bag let down kicked in. It sounded good... very good...

Old ones and clones are holy grails. I owned a 72 Deluxe Reverb and it was heavenly. I tried a reissue a year ago and it sounded like mud. Could have been a bad speaker, maybe the tubes were bad... i don't know but it didn't sound anything like my original DR. Part of the problem is crappier transformers. Now, i'm not down on reissues. To the contrary: i think the Princeton Reissue is awesome. Sounds beautiful and doesn't have the gremlins an old amp has (though i did upgrade the transformer).

I know you weren't asking for amp advice necessarily but as a former vintage Deluxe Reverb owner, i have to highly recommend Allen Amps. For just under $1k (more if you buy pre-built) i built one of his Sweet Spot kits and sold my Deluxe Reverb. It is the only amp i own and i love it. If you need more power, he has the Old Flame w/ 2x10's @ 40w, or the Encore w/ 1x12, 1x15, or 2x10 @ 35w, or the Accomplice @ 40w (w/ custom transformer).

I can't speak to gigging with those, but they are based on the louder Fender amps. My Deluxe Reverb would get lost pretty quickly when i used to play out with a not-very-loud band.

Aren't classic 30's similar to Fender tweed amps? Those are pretty different than the Deluxes / blackface amps. Maybe the Fender Hot Rods are more your jam. They have the grind of the Classic 30, and have models at 40 and 60w (with the weight to match).

[edit]
Wait! Why wouldn't you just get a Peavy Classic 50? A Deluxe Reverb is a side-step @ 22w.

BarryMClark · June 2nd, 2012, 07:18 PM

I just keep in mind that holy-grail-ness and similar statements are nothing more than individual opinions no matter how many people share them. I have bought amps before because it seemed everyone else thought it was great. I was, however, richer for the experience. Just gotta keep going through amps until you find that one. It's expensive. What is funny is, not matter what I have bought, they all get compared to my Roland Cube 80x... and only my 80x is still here. That should tell me something... but hell no.

JohnS · June 2nd, 2012, 07:54 PM

If the X2 is the same as the XD, then the line out comes BEFORE the tubes, so it is all SS / DSP. There is a really long thread in the XD Amp Owners Club section of the TDPRI that has info about using a Behringer G100 (I think) DI box that goes between the speaker and amp so you get the tubes in the signal. Supposedly helps a bunch to retain the "X Factor."

And the box is like $35.00.

tguen63 · June 2nd, 2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by polishbroadcast

Old ones and clones are holy grails.

+1.

The old ones are hand wired, with carbon comp resistors, blue molded caps, etc., etc. The new ones don't have the same components. Also the reissue Jensens don't sound the same as vintage Jensens.

One thing that might help your amp sound better is a better speaker. A Weber 12F150 is made to be like a vintage Jensen C12N and would be a big improvement over a reissue Jensen. But that won't help your volume problem.

I built a hand wired DR clone using a Weber kit years ago. It sounded great but the volume didn't quite cut it for me in a band situation. So I converted it to use 6L6s so it is more like a 1x12 Vibrolux Reverb or a Vibroverb. I am very happy with it now.

Regarding the Classic 50, if you didn't like the Classic 30 I don't think you will like the 50. I used to have one and it was OK and plenty loud for gigs, but once I started building Fender and Marshall clones I sold it.

Tony65x55 · June 2nd, 2012, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnS

If the X2 is the same as the XD, then the line out comes BEFORE the tubes, so it is all SS / DSP. There is a really long thread in the XD Amp Owners Club section of the TDPRI that has info about using a Behringer G100 (I think) DI box that goes between the speaker and amp so you get the tubes in the signal. Supposedly helps a bunch to retain the "X Factor."

And the box is like $35.00.

Actually, I think it goes through the 12AX7 before it comes out so it is a bit tubey and actually sounds pretty darn good through the power amp and cab I have, the cab being an open back loaded with Eminence Red Coats. Lots of twang

I'll have to check out the Behringer box. Thanks.

Tony65x55 · June 2nd, 2012, 09:02 PM

You guys are great and you have tremendous knowledge and common sense. Keep it coming.

Tony65x55 · June 2nd, 2012, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tguen63

+1.

The old ones are hand wired, with carbon comp resistors, blue molded caps, etc., etc. The new ones don't have the same components. Also the reissue Jensens don't sound the same as vintage Jensens.

One thing that might help your amp sound better is a better speaker. A Weber 12F150 is made to be like a vintage Jensen C12N and would be a big improvement over a reissue Jensen. But that won't help your volume problem.

I built a hand wired DR clone using a Weber kit years ago. It sounded great but the volume didn't quite cut it for me in a band situation. So I converted it to use 6L6s so it is more like a 1x12 Vibrolux Reverb or a Vibroverb. I am very happy with it now.

Regarding the Classic 50, if you didn't like the Classic 30 I don't think you will like the 50. I used to have one and it was OK and plenty loud for gigs, but once I started building Fender and Marshall clones I sold it.

I got to thinking about this post and I realized that one of things the amp didn't have was the sparkle that was in my old '72 Super Reverb a zillion years ago. Initially I thought it might just be memory making it sound better than it was but after a couple of years of touring with that thing, I kinda have the sound burned into my brain. I don't have a boutique matched set of 6V6 power tubes kicking around but I have speakers, even a couple of decent ones, and the DRRI has those very convenient output jacks.

So I moved it to a little bigger room in the house (my poor long-suffering wife, no wonder she hates me) and plugged in my 12" Eminence Red Coat from my SCX2 and POW!!!, I have a sparkling Deluxe Reverb sound that is awesome. It's even appreciably louder than the stock speaker. I guess Fender decided to spare every expense and installed a speaker in the DRRI that doesn't do justice to the amp. As well, while the amp was sitting looking pretty and sounding pretty darn good, I also plugged in my 15" Peavey guitar bottom.

Ya baby! My guitars sounded huge and depthy, with a sparkle and chime on the high end I haven't heard for a long time. A little more time will tell, but it's possible I jumped to a wrong conclusion based on a POS speaker.

Thanks "tguen63."

GreatGretsch · June 3rd, 2012, 07:24 AM

That's great, and an easy fix!!!

The Marlin · June 3rd, 2012, 09:50 AM

Change the stock speaker on the Classic 30. It'll sound much nicer. There is also a thriving mod community sprung up to tweak the best out of that cracking little amp.

Marlin

Telefan · June 3rd, 2012, 10:41 AM

The DRRI may just need some time to break in. Most amps need some playing time before the speaker starts giving up a good sound.

Tony65x55 · June 3rd, 2012, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Marlin

Change the stock speaker on the Classic 30. It'll sound much nicer. There is also a thriving mod community sprung up to tweak the best out of that cracking little amp.

Marlin

I'll try that. Thanks.

Tony65x55 · June 3rd, 2012, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telefan

The DRRI may just need some time to break in. Most amps need some playing time before the speaker starts giving up a good sound.

The DRRI is five years old and recently retubed. I'll keep playing with it. I was getting some really nice stuff out of it with the Eminence Red Coats.

tguen63 · June 3rd, 2012, 03:36 PM

That's great that it worked out for you. I have heard good things about the Eminence speakers too, just haven't tried one yet.

Tony65x55 · June 3rd, 2012, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tguen63

That's great that it worked out for you. I have heard good things about the Eminence speakers too, just haven't tried one yet.

The bizarre thing was when I swapped out the speaker, someone had beat me to it. It had a Weber Vintage in it. It has been replaced with Eminence and checked. Sounds very nice. I'm on my way to a jam in about 30 minutes but I'll let you know how it did!

Dennison · June 3rd, 2012, 06:19 PM

I like the Eminence Wizard. I have one in a 2x12 cab, sharing with a Celestion G12 100.

Synchro · June 3rd, 2012, 11:20 PM

I'm puzzled. Unless you are playing pretty big venues the DRRI should have planty of oats. I've heard them used in outdoor venues and they sound great. I use mine for virtually every indoor gig I play and it stays clean. It makes me wonder if yours is sickly or perhaps need a speaker break-in. BTW, I put a 12AY7 in the first pre-amp stage of the reverb channel for greater headroom.